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This made me laugh:
"1. Already Monetizes in Other Ways - when I saw he put ‘buy me a beer’ on his blog I got really angry. He boasts every month about how much he earns and then has the arrogance to ask us for a few extra dollars?"
Really true!
The further he pushes it the more press/links he gets and the more money he makes.
Don't we need at least one person pushing the envelope in over monetization for us all to learn from?
I'd like to see him push harder.
I have nothing against John, in fact, we've been good "e-buds" for a while. But anyone can see that the cult he's created on his blog is no longer there to learn how to make money online and get tips from John Chow. They are there to see what "evil" and "genius" method he uses next to weasel some more money out of the masses which they are a part of.
His blog community is there to watch him make money, not to get expert advice. They emulate his actions but I honestly don't think most are there for his words.
Now the first time I ever heard of him or his blog was at Bumpzee when other bloggers were talking about the cookie stuffing blog post he made. Now that I disagree with 100%. Was bad advice, can get you booted out of the network. And looking around his blog, nothing that really interests me because I do mainstream affiliate marketing and there's not much there for that. And he'll probably end up getting zapped with the buying and selling of links out in public like that. Looks like he already lost his top spot. Don't know where bloggers heads are at with that.
But again, he's making nice money, has a big audience. Numbers don't lie.
Maybe I will get someone to knock up a plugin
It's John's site and he has helped many with his posts and you'd be surprised how many people want him to make a ton off the site, then anxiously wait til the beginning of the next month to see what type of earnings he has made.
I've had several blog reviews done for my blog and so many of them want to see more ads on the site, so I can report on their performance. I was a bit surprised, as my goal is to focus on content... without throwing up annoying ads in the readers face.
I feel John's site will continue to grow, but would be best if he monetized and focused on his best performing money makers and removing a few others.... after all at $10k a month he's doing well with what he has up.
I don't have any urge to give him more money than he's already making but I am not holding it against him either.
My response: Is "experimenting" supposed to be some sort of code word for shamelessly gaming the system and giving bad advice?
What I do have a problem with are the sketchy-at-best "evil tactics" (as he calls them) that he recommends to new affiliates who read his words as gospel. Our industry went through a period of experimenting with all of the "new tricks" he rehashes years ago.
There's a growing divide in affiliate marketing between the old folks and the newcomers, and it's we old folks that let Chow and other "gurus" spew their tactics without stepping up to confront them and show the new affiliates that there are other (and better) ways to make a buck than reusing five year old ideas that were bad ideas then.
Nice post, Jim.
"Is “experimenting†supposed to be some sort of code word for shamelessly gaming the system and giving bad advice?"
"What I do have a problem with are the sketchy-at-best “evil tactics†(as he calls them)"
you are putting somebody down and not giving any examples? maybe you are referring to the cookie stuffing post? I'm only guessing.
http://www.johnchow.com/evil-affiliate-marketin...
He clearly states: "Most affiliate programs won’t allow this and will ban you if you try it." That is NOT misleading. Certainly that isn't promoting something, rather educating.
If anything I got an education by reading that post. I'm a newbie and had no clue what cookie stuffing was, so I was thankful for the post.
I'm obviously not learning that stuff from the old heads, they are too busy being do-gooders. Thanks John Chow.
Any time he refers to something as "evil", you can confidently expect that it's not above board.
Cookie stuffing, gaming Google, increasing RSS stats, etc.
> I’m obviously not learning that stuff from the old heads, they are too busy being do-gooders.
Take some initiative and look at what's out there. I've got three years of newsletter archives and many dozens of affiliate tips at affiliatetip.com.
Proud to be a "do-gooder" a.k.a. somebody who achieved success the hard way in affiliate marketing by being clean and legitimate.
lol, any time he mentions something is "evil" I can confidently expect the do-gooders to get their panties in a wad, which is probably the reason he does it.
"Take some initiative and look at what’s out there. I’ve got three years of newsletter archives" If you've already written about cookie stuffing why is it not ok for John Chow to do it?
I'm sure that's his motive. He has no use for ill gotten gains.
> If you’ve already written about cookie stuffing why is it not ok for John Chow to do it?
As far as I recall, I've never encouraged anybody to cheat in any way. I have, however, produced volumes of information on legitimate affiliate marketing.
Maybe I should refocus and move into the get rich quick game.
Here - this will be my first blog entry...
These are some crazy, wild, experimental ways you can make easy money with affiliate programs: phish MySpace accounts, distribute spyware and send spam.
Now I don't suggest you do this stuff. But in the event you try it out and make some money... why don't you go and buy me a beer in appreciation.
I didn't say you did, I said you think it's alright for you to talk about cookie stuffing but not john chow.
I think it's fine to reference cookie stuffing in the context of an affiliate program that permits it, or to explain why it shouldn't be done, because it's a forbidden practice.
I don't think it's acceptable to write that it's not permitted and that it's evil, but that it's effective. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.
I don't get "Wink, wink, nudge, nudge." out of that.
"I don’t think it’s acceptable to write that it’s not permitted and that it’s evil, but that it’s effective."
fair enough, I find it "acceptable".
I got the “Wink, wink, nudge, nudge†out of how his original post touted how he was doing it to game AuctionAds.
That is, until he got caught.
He admitted most programs didn't permit it, yet he went and did it anyway without asking Jeremy is it was cool.
Shady.
I have visit John's site a few times. I think occasionally he did post some interesting content but what really throw me off is the stuff about AGLOCO or something like that. I didn't know what it was but digger deeper it looks very suspicious like some kind of pyramid scheme so I decided not to follow the crowd.
Very interesting post btw.
Francis Simisim
http://soshallwe.blogspot.com
I was also surprised to see the post ($10) for removing the "no follow" tag. It didn't matter to me because I rarely comment on his blog. But I noticed that some people made dozens of posts on his blog. I wonder if they knew about the "no-follow" tag...
Despite all these, though, I don't agree with some of his money-making ideas. I think charging people to remove the nofollow from their blogs and for posting dofollow on his blog is taking advantage of the gullible. And asking for beer money after saying he's earning so much from his blog is so tacky!
Still, it's our choice, isn't it? We can just stop reading his blog. Or we can continue to read it and pick up info but not get suckered into giving him money.
At least he admits he's "evil" and that he has no noble goals except make more and more money. So, reader beware.
We can still learn from his blog and not do the same mistakes on our blogs.
However, if you do choose to go down the path that John travels, you'd probably want to do it with a domain other than one in your real name (johnchow.com or samharrelson.com or markwielgus.com) because of the long term ramifications.
If someone wants to hack through the old paths again that were created years ago and disregarded as harder ways to climb the hill of success that we all are looking to climb, then so be it. Have fun, and I hope you all learn as much as the "old timer, do-gooders" did when we were running around the hill trying to figure out the best path to the top.
None of us are there yet, but you can certainly learn a lot if you go back and look at resources like Shawn's built up library or Jim's archives or even conversations on the forums from 2002 and 2003. We weren't discussing blogging yet (well, some were), but we were hitting on these same discussions about gaming systems, short term profits and the place of full disclosure.
It's easier to stand on the shoulders of giants rather than trying to invent the wheel all over again.
Blogging is wonderful and you can definitely make some money doing it. I do, both directly and indirectly. I could make a lot more money in the short term with my blogs, but I don't think that money would be worth the tradeoff to the amount of money they will bring in over the long term... especially with a blog in my own personal name.
Blogging is ultimately most valuable when it is set up to last the long haul. That means looking for ways to create better communities and content on your blog rather than better short term rankings or using RSS hacks to get more subscribers in one day.
What concerns me the most is that there is a growing rift between the next gen of "online marketers" and what you and others are calling the old crowd. We're not communicating with each other because of a number of reasons and faults on both sides. That's ultimately damaging to our industry because we're doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again.
I don't "despise" the "new blood," as I'm sure you don't despise the old blood. So let's not fall into generalities about either side of this perceived split.
Instead, let's look for ways to learn together and move the industry forward in a positive and profitable direction. My general point in getting involved in this discussion here on Jim's blog is that I don't see what Mr. Chow is doing as positive or profitable for the industry or individuals just getting involved in the industry.
I also mentioned he takes money to help manipulate other peoples google rankings.
I wasn't comparing Jim to John chow. I was giving you an example of how the newheads like to call bullsh!t on the old heads.
"Seems like you’re reaching to make your point, Mark… but what’s new?"
Hardly, seems like you're having trouble following as usual. I can slow it down if you need me to.
Have you ever read my blogs? Half the comments there disagree with me. But, they are well thought out and contribute to the conversation. It's my blog and I can experiment with the "delete comments" feature just as Chow can experiment with his plugins and features.
Let's show more respect to Jim and stay on topic since this is his blog. If you'd like to draw more linkbait, feel free to call me a hypocrite again on your blog.
Just got back from a long weekend away from the computer. Agree with me or don't, listen to me, or don't. Have your own opinion, that's great.
But I'll tell you what, give me the respect I've earned from doing this for 10+ years now. I'm not trying to bring anyone down, I'm just offering my opinions and help.
Lastly, if you're going to try to use my blog to treat my friends without the same respect that I expect ("I can slow it down if you need me to."), then you can simply not comment.
Let's have a beer at the summit in person, all of us and talk it out.
sorry your holiness, I'll take my conversation elsewhere, ye old wise men have fun conversing. l8r
p.s. What's up with the male enhancement links? Come on, John!
http://proaudiomatrix.com/how-do-your-stats-com...
It is those people who are sneaky and dishonest that bother me not john chow.
He may loose credibility and regular readers. But that is not the point. He will still get a lot of visitors from various search channels. Hell, in fact even your post is going to give him a lot of traffic.
You should know, more traffic = more money
:-)
but I do not know i john too much every since I have started blogging I have been tackbackin to several post of his many times as its pretty popular
manipulating traffics, links and
rankings to realize what his blog is all about
..which is a plain and simple
money making blog.
If he ask for a beer then
You can not blame him for being as such
because his blog is about how to make
money online...
I've written a post where I try to explain the concept. (http://www.johncow.com/love-your-sheep/)
I've been reading up on Internet Marketers who habitually abuse their lists over the last couple of days, by sending out one sales promotion after another, and then follow up sales promotions.
Their unsubscribe rates are naturally high, but the thing is their replenishment rate is even higher. One aspect of the 'game' is that if you've enough backlinks, articles and press releases as well as PPC ads out there, you'll have hapless newbies flowing into your blog or your list.
From there, it's just hammering away at them and even if you get 100 unsubs a day, but 500 new people coming in, then what the hey, right?
I agree it's amoral and there's always the fine line between what's legal and what's moral.
If someone wants to nickel and dime their way to whatever income they want, they're inciting certain consequences and rammifications to their brand.
Maybe they were a political refugee or maybe a boat person, or maybe an illegal border crosser and having coming from an imporvished background of eating bread and water, maybe whatever they're doing now is a reflection of that?
What knows? But regardless, I find that my time is better spend on beating my own path and achieving my own goals.
Just because someone around you is raping and pillaging, doesn't mean it's ok, or that you should do it too.
After all, you have your own brain, don't you?
Use it.
Right now he's site looks like a Christmas tree, what he is trying to do is ridiculous with all the ad sales etc.
And I have to say that the longer you read john's posts the more you realise that he isn't helping you earn $ of your blog, sure he'll slip in a how-to sometimes explaining things most web developers and webmaster already know.
So it seems that the people left on that site are:
1.Completely new to SEO making money online and are hoping they'll get some good info.
2.The "ass kissers" who practically say and do anything to get mentioned by chow. Maybe they think john will create miracles for them, personally I do not know.
The good followers of his blog, the ones that had something good to say are long gone, and all he has left is people commenting 10 times in a post just to hit the top commentator's list.
It's sad to see, that greed can turn people this way, especially money.
If someone else would turn his blog into a Christmas tree 2 years ago I bet john would have had bad opinion about it.
Money and greed can make people blind, and this will be the fall for him.
You can find it here : http://www.newmediatype.com/how-john-chow-makes...
As far as the blog pushing goes : I think almost everybody would do what he is doing if the got the chance ... *almost everybody that is ;)
Lex
I first went to John Chow yesterday and liked him... Now im not that sure..
And in his article he confesses, he makes money blogging about nothing.... his determination has gotten him where he is now.
I can sure learn from that.
Google's arrogance is not going to hurt him or his site. He doesn't need them and as others of us learn from John's example, that should really start to shake up the greed-trust at Google.
The idea of a corporation as greedy as Google pointing the finger and trying to punish John Chow for trying to make a few thousand dollars a month is laughable at best and ominous at worst.
If Google keeps trying to engineer the web with the stick method, they will soon enjoy the same venom that Mr. Softy has been receiving for the last several years.
The fact that he commands so much($30k) from monthly ad revenues proves readers like what they find at his blog. I mean c'mon how could he do this if there was nothing valuable?
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Ajith
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